Goldy Upside

[LUHoops00Participant]

Been thinking these last couple of days about next year and the future of LU hoops, and I keep coming back to Goldy lately. What are your thoughts on Goldy upside? He showed me some big upside because of his length and athleticism, I am not sure we ever had a big get up and down the court so fast, he is extremely fast runner and has a very quick hop and second hop off the floor for rebounds. His length should allow him to develop into a good shot blocker. Offensively he showed some development in the post with a little hook and that up and under move to his right. On downside, he needs to add weight to be able to hold up down low against bigs with size, but I suppose Kempton can start doing that with his legit 235 lb frame.

So where so folks think goldy career goes in these next three years? I think with hard work we could be looking at a top 3 or 4 front court guy in the leaguev who can get 8-10 boards a game and 10-12 points a game, consistently.

How quick or if he ever gets there will be interesting? Also probably depends somewhat on what Kempton becomes, but I think those two will easily be able to co-exist in the same lineup based on their skill sets.

Hope this spurs on some conversation, wanted to get this out here for all to comment on!

Hoops00

• This topic was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by  LUHoops00.

[StablerBumParticipant]

I think with hard work we could be looking at a top 3 or 4 front court guy in the leaguev who can get 8-10 boards a game and 10-12 points a game, consistently.

This sentence says it all for me. I won’t go anywhere near a Goldsborough projection as I know nothing of his work ethic. He has all the athletic tools necessary to be a force in the league and a double-double guy with some blocks thrown in. However, his hands are questionable and he is very unpolished. Devon Carter and Jesse Chuku’s tweets often reference JG’s sleeping and laziness. Maybe they are just joking, and/or maybe he is just one of those guys that comes off as laid back but really puts in the time and work. I really have no idea. Long story short for me – he has the potential to be a dominant and all-league player but if he gets there is 100% dependent on how bad he wants it.

[lehigh90Participant]

I’m probably not as high on him as others on the board. I agree that his upside is about 10/8. That would be by senior year. I think if you get 6/6 next year, I would be happy. Throw in a couple of blocks, even better. Even that is difficult to project when you are talking about a guy with no offensive post up moves, and no midrange game. Right now, he is really only going to score on the offensive glass or in transition, so hard to put up more than 10 just doing that. Agree that his hands are very questionable, but he has quickness and agility. I think he is clearly going to be ahead of CB, over his career, but they are both offensive projects moving forward. This guy was never a big scorer in high school, as I think he averaged about 12 ppg, when he was the biggest and most talented on the floor.

[LUHoops00Participant]

Man do I miss the season, and for so many reasons. I’m wondering if I’m losing my mind here boys after 3 months of no LU hoops! The reason I think that is that my recollection of Goldy was that his hands were pretty good. Baltimore on the other hand has some of the worst hands I’ve ever seen, but Goldy I recall having pretty good hands. I think Goldy could be one of these guys in our league that you run basically zero plays for and ends up with 10 points a night off of running the court in transition and offensive rebound put backs. I am hopeful we see some strides in his Soph campaign, as we will need all the help we can get in the frontcourt…frontcourt has potential, but no sure things right now, despite that we’re high on Kempton and JC.

[toddcuddParticipant]

I’m still pretty optimistic about Goldy’s upside. He does appear to be pretty darn athletic to me, and seems to move well (to my untrained eye). What I don’t know is how likely it is that he’ll develop more moves in the post, to make him a genuine option in the scheme.
My biggest concern, from this past season, was a rash of missed dunks. As I recall they were all early in games, before legs should have been an issue. His hops do seem solid, to me – so I just don’t understand what was happening there. Jitters?

[RichHParticipant]

Think he was overamped. I see a lot of upside. Will he realuze it? Think so as he gets more PT. No clue on his work ethic but per his tweets he did say he was working on his post moves. We’ll see. Carter healthy .I still believe he is an asset on O , D unsure. Lots of moving parts for Doc to mesh. Will be an I.teresting season.

[norcalfanParticipant]

This is a building year, but as long as they have some leadership from previous years, such as Mackey and other players who had a taste of the 2010 and 2012 teams, LU will be in the running. Congrats to the young men who graduated this year. The best to all. Good luck CJ, we are watching here on the left coast.

[lehigh90Participant]

It is going to be interesting how coaches set up the frontcourt with personnel and roles. I have said before that I think we see Kempton at the 5, as a starter for the next 4 years. So, Goldy, if a starter, is going to have to play at the 4. If a backup, then he slides to a backup 5 to Kempton. If you go big and start Goldy with Kempton, the question becomes where do you space them on the court in your sets. I think Kempton, as a freshman, is going to more comfortable facing the basket either as a midrange wing shooter, or at the high post. I don’t think he is going to be ready to be a back to the basket player so early in his career. He is inexperienced and slight, and the block is generally no place for guys like that. So, I think if you have Goldy and Kempton together up front, you are going to have to play Goldy down low, with Kempton out a bit on the wing, or a high low combo with Kempton at the high post and Goldy on the low block.

The game is changing so much to either dump to low post and kick out to 3 shooters, or the high pick and roll game at the top. I think Kempton would be a good fit to be the high pick setter for Mackey. Once he sets that pick at 18 or so feet, he could be a good pick and pop option, as I think he shoots it well for his size. Goldy, on the other hand, is going to be more of a high pick and roll guy, as he can’t be a pop off shooter. So, I think I would go with Goldy as a low post energy, banger at the 4, and Kempton at a 5 in the high post. I am hoping that Kempton has a better stroke than Gabe from the perimeter, and can develop a back to the basket game like Gabe. He projects to be a bigger target on the low block than Gabe.

[StablerBumParticipant]

I am hoping that Kempton has a better stroke than Gabe from the perimeter, and can develop a back to the basket game like Gabe. He projects to be a bigger target on the low block than Gabe.

I think if Kempton can ever shoot it nearly as well as Gabe we should consider ourselves lucky. I know people like to rag on his 3 pt % (which I think is a respectabe 31% sr year – very respectable for a big that shoots them occassionally to keep the D honest). Part of why Gabe was so good over his career was the threat of his midrange jumper. It seemed like at least 2-3 times a game he would catch and face in the 14-18 ft range, pump fake and either 1) shoot it if the D is giving it to him (and he made a high % of those) or 2) use the reaction of his pump fake to set up a drive. I wouldn’t be shocked (we’ll never know) if Gabe shot over 55%, maybe even 60% on those 14-18 footers over his career.

Let’s not set our incoming guys up to fail by setting standards extraordinarily high.

[TMHParticipant]

I believe TK may have game skills similar to GK but with a bigger frame and likely a better vertical leap. With that being said, whether or not he has the same level of success as GK will entirely depend on TK.
Whether or not JG even starts this year likely depends on how badly he wants it. JC is pretty much still an unknown but with a big frame. SW could surprise us. CB has similar stats. Depending on how much progress he made over the off-season, there is still opportunity to become a factor.

[StablerBumParticipant]

I believe TK may have game skills similar to GK but with a bigger frame and likely a better vertical leap.

Agree on the frame, but really disagree on the vertical. Check out the one video we have on Kempton – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dulOMPucOzo. Notably the “block” play that begins at :37 and the and-1 at :46. Also check out the tip-in at 1:10. I’m not sure if his fingers get more than an inch or two above the rim (if at all) on any of them.

Contrast that with this video of Knutson – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lNg3c3nkkY. Check out especially :56, 1:20, and MOST OF ALL 2:08. Gabe has some very solid bounce.

I’m not ragging on TK at all, and I hope (and think) he will develop into a very good PL big man. I also think his sheer size is something we have lacked (including Gabe). I’m just trying to keep expectations in perspective for these kids and at least at this point I don’t think TK is anywhere near Gabe’s athleticism.

[TMHParticipant]

SB,
I’ve been looking for tape of TK for awhile now and haven’t found any. I see your concerns. My comparison was based more on GK’s inability to leave his feet during the 30 or so games I’ve watched him play. For someone 6-9 who started virtually every game of his career, I had expected a bit more rebounding (5.3/g). Don’t get me wrong though, I loved his game. He was an excellent post player and had a nice touch form the outside. Kempton I believe averaged about 16 rpg during his senior yr. That may be a reflection of the competition or perhaps he has really good technique.

[StablerBumParticipant]

Yeah, I wouldn’t argue with anyone saying Gabe wasn’t a great rebounder. I just wanted to make sure no one is expecting Kempton to come in and start flying around with huge dunks and blocks, which is what I thought you meant by your “better vertical leap than Gabe” comment. Gabe did get pushed around at times over his career, and I think Kempton’s weight will help him in that department. A lot of rebounding is also technique and desire, and oftentimes it just comes down to a player saying to himself that he is going to make rebounding a major strength of his game. Judging by stats alone, regardless of competition, it certainly seems that Kempton has the desire to be a force on the glass. Gabe was very quick for his size, and had very good athleticism for a PL big, and my guess is Kempton will (at least initially) be less athletic and skilled, but also bigger.

[lehigh90Participant]

I haven’t looked at the stats in detail, but I thought Gabe really struggled from the perimeter late in his career. Early on in his career, he was effective on the block with his hook and drop step moves. He was very polished coming out of high school. I remember him putting up 30+ in a game in his soph season (I think it was) and I thought he was really going to be a big low post scorer. But, as his career progressed, he tended to move his game further and further from the block. In his senior season, he took a ton of ill-advised 3s, in my opinion. And, a lot of deep jump shots from 2. As he moved further and further from the basket, I thought he became less and less effective. When he had his big games, it was not from the perimeter, but from the block. He got away from that too much late in his career, and when we needed him to dominate on the block (post CJ injury) he was shooting 3s. We had so many better options from the perimeter that I didn’t want to see my 6’9″ pivot, 20 feet from the basket. I also think he rebounding suffered as he played so far from the hoop. But, he clearly did not have the necessary quickness, quick leaping ability to be a top-class rebounder. Great player for sure, but I would have preferred to really see him send all of his time in the low post.

We cannot expect Kempton to be at that level coming in. Especially from the low post, where it takes so much repetition to develop comfortable low post moves. But, I think he will be more polished than your average freshman center, due to his father, and the fact that when you are not an elite athlete you need to be very sound fundamentally to have success. I think he will be more comfortable facing the basket early in his career. Gabe was probably the opposite. He established himself on the low block from day one, and he had a vast array of low post moves, and his left-handedness helped him down there.

[StablerBumParticipant]

But, as his career progressed, he tended to move his game further and further from the block. In his senior season, he took a ton of ill-advised 3s, in my opinion. And, a lot of deep jump shots from 2. As he moved further and further from the basket, I thought he became less and less effective.

Gabe’s fg% by year:
FR: 52%
SO: 50%
JR: 51%
SR: 51%

This also reflected a steady increase in shots from 6.6 a game as a frosh to 9.9 a game as a senior. And obviosly the added defensive attention going from the 4th options as a freshman to the #1 option the second half of his senior year. So Gabe was able to shoot virtually the same % every year, while getting up more shots, with more defensive attention. Not sure how that equates to becoming less effective. His effective field goal % of .532 (fg% adjusted for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal) as a senior placed him second in the PL. Also, once CJ was injured, he no longer got the 1 on 1’s he had previously, on the block or otherwise. You guys are tough critics!

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