November 18, 2013 at 6:11 pm #12236
Numbers are revealing but I think the sample is too small to say a lot yet. CB a puzzle. Always thought he could be effective inside as he is a tough kid. Never got why he didn’t and dont know why he is now. Hope it continues. O rebounds will IMO be an issue all year. JC outside a lot on O,so it is TK and the Gs who will do most. Would love to see us start boxing out some. No one other than JG seems to do itNovember 18, 2013 at 10:06 pm #12240
Can’t help but think JC is going to be – make that has to be – a force inside this year, as he’s been showing, if we hope to do anything in the PL. As much as we’re all impressed with TK on offense, there’s eqaul concern (speaking for myself) on defense. While JC may like the 3 ball and has proven to be good/adequate (7 for 20) at it, his new friend had better be the 2-ball and shots with ready access to the lane in support of rebounding. He’s a true leaper (sidelight: he’s one the opening tip in each game played to date) with the muscle we need under and around the rim for put-backs on offense and blocks on defense. TK with either JG or CB isn’t enough. I’m hoping we go 3-big for the next couple of games to address what becoming the “elephant in the room”……rebounding. Oh yeah, looking ahead, there are 6’10″s and 6″9” on the Pitt, Howard and So. Dekota State rosters.November 18, 2013 at 11:05 pm #12244
I’m trying to be calm about the rebounding issue. It’s gonna be rough in the OOC part of the schedule, I’m trying to just accept that. But at the same time, I can’t help but wonder if there is some kind of “system” issue here. It was my big gripe last year too. I understand that that you can’t win every facet of every game, but this pattern really concerns me.
Looking back at last years stats, we were routinely out-rebounded, but the season totals don’t look that bad: 1016 to 1104. Not good, but not catastrophic, I don’t think. Here’s the thing – offensive boards: 377-272. I remember seeing too many games where we lost the battle of offensive rebounds by a 2:1 margin.
I’m not enough of an Xs and Os guy to understand why this is. Are our numbers very low, or our opponents’ numbers very high? If it’s at our offensive end, does this have something to do with the offense we run? Guys aren’t in position to get ORs? If so, maybe I just have to learn to live with it, and expect to win in other categories.
Last year I don’t think we had much choice, in terms of how we lined up. We played the guys we needed to play for reasons of performance as well as depth. But I feel like we should be able to run a bigger lineup this year. Maybe this won’t be so bad once we get to PL play, I dunno. It was trouble all last season, though.
I’d love to sit down and watch film with somebody who really knows their Xs and Os. I feel like I’m missing a lot.November 18, 2013 at 11:32 pm #12245
The rebounding issue is very frustrating. I think it was ’90 who has been harping on this team not boxing out, and I think that is a major issue. I also think that their is a general lack of toughness. I understand that TK may not view himself as a rebounder, and prefers offense to defense, but there needs to be some pride there. He is the biggest guy on this roster, and regardless of what he can provide on offense there is a responsibility to put a body on an opponent and fight for rebounds. He’s only a freshman, and I do think he will get there eventually, but to me the biggest problem on the boards to this point is that our young guys (TK, SW, JC, and AP) are not really ready physically for the college game.
I know AP is a guard but 3 rebounds in 107 minutes?! Is he running away from the ball? This is a bad rebounding team and it needs to be a group effort to secure the ball after forcing a miss.
Part of it is a systems issue that I am ok with – that the coaches want the wings to get out in transition and run the floor. But when this team is in a close game and needs a stop (the last two games) and forces a miss but can’t close out the posession with a rebound…that’s a problem. All 5 guys need to be working to secure that rebound. There is certainly a luck/size/athleticism component, but a good part of locking up a key rebound at a crucial moment is toughness. We’ll call it growing pains for now, but the last two games have been very winnable with a few key rebounds in the second half.November 19, 2013 at 1:09 am #12252
To address two issues mentioned above, I watched the entire game on ESPN3. The announced crowd of 2000+ had to be season ticket holders who didn’t show up. There could not have been more than 500-700 people, if that. And regarding this game, the lack of defensive rebounding killed us. And lack of boxing out-rebounding technique has been a problem for a long time. Hopefully whatever rebounding bug attacked CB is contagious. Or hopefully whomever coached him up gets a bigger audience.November 19, 2013 at 1:25 am #12254
Agree 72, hope that your guess on coaching up is right. We may not get more O rebounds than all but at least we should be much closer than we are now. Clear JC can rebound on D end.need him to help more on O.November 19, 2013 at 6:56 am #12257
Kudos to all of you posting here: I’m amazed an LU hoops board has way more posts that an LU football board. Who would have predicted that just a few years ago?November 19, 2013 at 3:41 pm #12259
I’m starting to think Reed may need to revamp the starting lineup/top 7-8 to cover up some of our weaknesses. The best thing, IMO, this team does is score the basketball. Scoring is nice, but it rarely wins at any level. Solid defense and rebounding are generally the key to success. It is hard to get a good barometer on this team, when they play against big time OOC talent, as we are never going to be able to defend and rebound against these teams, who are bigger than us and more athletic.
All that being said, I think we may need to sacrifice some offense, for the sake of toughening up the defense and rebounding. TK is not going to rebound this season for us. Plain and simple. He doesn’t have the body, strength, toughness, or desire at this point in his development. Our hope is that he becomes a good positional rebounder later in his career. So, he is going to need help on the backboard. JC is a solid rebounder, but he is often 20 feet from the basket on the offensive end, which means positioning is going to be tough for him. So, I would propose pulling a little offense from the starting 5 to sure up our weaknesses.
I think it makes sense to move JC to the 3 (he plays like a 2-3 more than a 4), and insert either CB or JG into the starting 5 at the 4 spot to give us a little toughness. Keep TK at the 5, and we have a frontcourt of “big” players, 6’10”, 6’7″ and 6’6″. Obviously, MM at the 1, and I would move CS out of the starting lineup, and start AP at the 2. I like AP’s perimeter defending a little better than CS, who struggles to stay in front of penetrators.
I haven’t seen much from MS at this point, that I would be giving him many minutes. He looks rather lost out there, and I don’t like his ability to run the show, this early in his career. I would run CS in as the 3rd guard, who can play either spots, and my first big would be either CB or JG, whoever does not start. I think that 7 gives us the best shot to compete.
Work AD back in whenever he comes back. SW gets minutes behind JC, limited, until he proves something. Really unsure what he is so far. MS, limited minutes at PG. SC, again limited, until healthy, wing against zone.
So, minutes wise, you would have something like.
PG – MM (32), CS (8)
SG – AP (20), CS (20)
SF – JC (30), SW (10)
PF – CB (20), JG (20)
C – TK (30), JG (5), CB (5)November 19, 2013 at 4:29 pm #12260
Another part of this issue is the unfortunate McCarthy injury and the fact that the staff did not address it in the following recruiting classes. We only have one center on the roster. It would be great if there were another big body that could be thrown onto the court (even if he wasn’t particularly skilled – a la Maneri) to be physical and help on the boards. It would also toughen up Kempton and give him some legit competition for minutes. When the only guy on your roster with legit D1 interior size is a 18 years old…you are probably going to struggle on the boards.November 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm #12261
Not sure we should get completely carried away with CB based on one game. He certainly played very hard and was effective on the glass against Houston but does that warrant complete change in rotation. If that is the case than why is nobody talking about AP’s struggles since his has not been able to stand in the corner for 10 seconds and set up to shoot (Rider game). It is going to be up and down but knee-jerk reactions to one or two games is not the answer. I agree that toughness may be a major issue with this team.November 19, 2013 at 8:49 pm #12264
I’ve never been a big fan of CB, but he has shown an ability to rebound the basketball at a fairly high rate when he gets minutes. Those stats have been put up here for a couple of years. He will struggle on the offensive end, as he is not good at making the catch and finishing. But, he is a willing defender and rebounder. This team has not been a good rebounding team for quite awhile. When you have finesse big guys like Gabe and Kempton, you need to pair them with some size and toughness. I think you need to play another big with Kempton more minutes, and the only choices are JG and CB. Potentially, SW down the line, but he is not ready. If you continue to run out TK with 3 guards (MM, CS, AP), we are going to get murdered on the glass. JC can’t rebound all by himself. I’m fine with an offensively limited 4, when you have 4 other guys on the court who can score the ball.November 19, 2013 at 10:27 pm #12265
A few observations from a board-hopper:
When your PF is second on the team in 3pt attempts, your offensive rebounding is going to suffer. Imo, JC strength is his ability to attack the glass on both ends of floor, and the occasional 3 pt shot within the offense. He has 20 3pt. attempts in 4 games. Offensive rebounds lead to high percentage shots. Secondly, when a team gives up offensive rebounds, the other team gets more than just 2nd chance points. They get high percentage looks at the basket. So, if you play the best def for 30 seconds, but can’t rebound the ball, you just gave up a much higher % shot, and all the foul trouble that goes along with it. Third, exploit mismatches. SW is a 3 imo, with a decent post up game against smaller defenders, or beating wings off the dribble. He has 10 foul shot attempts in 54 total mins of action (only 40% so far from line), whereas TK has 11 in 95 mins, JC 8 fta in 119 mins.
With this team, toughness and rebounding should be an advantage, with high quality shots that go along with it. In addition, you put pressure on the other team’s bigs. Lastly, if you continue to drive the ball too deep against bigger teams (MN, HOU, PITT), shot blocks are like turnovers = 4 pt swing bc you lost a chance to score and gave the other team an easy basket.
One last thing, early in the HOU game, SW & TK ran two man action with TK setting screen and SW coming off drawing 2 def giving TK easy layup. They never ran that play again the entire game? You have to exploit mismatches!November 19, 2013 at 10:56 pm #12271
I agree with pretty much everything in your post randomfan.
For me personally, I don’t care a ton about getting offensive rebounds but I REALLY care about giving up second chance points. Getting offensive rebounds is a luxury, and I’d love to see us (especially JC, JG, SW, and CB) get some more, but this team will never be great at it and offensive rebounding isn’t going to win games for this team.
On the other hand, giving up second chance points is devastating. As randomfan said, an offensive rebound almost always leads to a lay-up. That or a kick out 3. Those are the two best shots you can hope for in college basketball. Not to mention the demoralizing aspect of working extremely hard on D to get a stop, and then not securing the rebound and giving up a second chance layup.
I’m much less concerned about JC’s positioning on offense and our lack of rebounding on that end than I am about our inability to close out defensive possessions.
No matter how well we play on defense tomorrow @ PITT – I’m not sure it will matter since their missed jumpers will very likely be turned into lay-ups.November 20, 2013 at 7:09 pm #12296
As I’ve been told, offense has not been the factor holding CB’s minutes down. He is what he is. Given enough minutes, he will likely get you 4-6 points, mostly on put backs. He is probably the most fundamentally sound rebounder on the team although at 6-6 and with less minutes, he likely won’t outrebound JC.
CB’s problem has been defense. I suspect he wasn’t ready for the physicality of the college game and without superior quickness, a small bump or push seemed to leave him a half-step behind which caused him to foul often or let his man get by him completely. If he has gotten stronger..more physical.. and has overcome this problem, I suspect you will see his minutes go up to around 20/g. If not, it will be back in the doghouse. If Houston was a test, then prospects get better. Pitt however will be the ultimate test.
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