Time for Changes: Coen and Shaf

Forum Forum Lehigh Sports Lehigh Football Time for Changes: Coen and Shaf

This topic contains 33 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by RichH RichH 4 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #27803

    Miller
    Participant

    agree with TMH about chick. Lum made chick look good,.real good. Our D was much better back then, Kotulski put a very good defense on the field, started to decline when he left. Botts is MOST of the problem on D and will save Andy his job when he is let go at the end of the year. Zero sacks and the time of possession were big factors. BTW, Valpo plays in the worst conference,has had a WEAK OOC schedule, and is regarded as a terrible team(even Campbell gets excited to play them) and the offensive guru from the past is in charge of that program. Really??

    #27804
    LUHawker
    LUHawker
    Participant

    [quote quote=27781]Unbelievable…are you talking about the same Dave Cecchini who is 5-17 in his 1st 2 years at Valpo (1-9) last year and is currently losing 40-10 in the 3Q to Illinois St?

    Are the posters on this board the sames ones who blasted Coen, Folmar and Shafnisky after the 1st game last year and then then seemed to get selective amnesia by the end of the season when our offense produced some of the best #s ever included the teams mentored by Chick.
    Get a hold of yourself. This is going to be a long season.

    [/quote]

    You’re drawing the wrong inference. I don’t think anyone is stating to bring Chick back, but the statistics highlight that he greatly helped the program and without him Coen has been a sub-500 coach.

    Another thread comments on how MU had a great gameplay; this suggests our staff was outcoached.

    Time for changes.

    #27805

    lu90
    Participant

    [quote quote=27781]Unbelievable…are you talking about the same Dave Cecchini who is 5-17 in his 1st 2 years at Valpo (1-9) last year and is currently losing 40-10 in the 3Q to Illinois St?

    Are the posters on this board the sames ones who blasted Coen, Folmar and Shafnisky after the 1st game last year and then then seemed to get selective amnesia by the end of the season when our offense produced some of the best #s ever included the teams mentored by Chick.
    Get a hold of yourself. This is going to be a long season.

    [/quote]

    FYI, Valpo won 4 games in 5 years (4-51) prior to Cecchini’s arrival. It’s wasn’t exactly known for it’s current history of winning. It involved a big time overhaul. Valpo actually won 4 games in his first year. Last year was a step back but from what I understand there was a ridiculous amount of injuries.

    On the other side of this coin, Coen took over a program from Lembo that was 44-14 in the 5 years prior to his arrival and went 20-23 in the next 4 years.

    #27806

    Lehigh74
    Participant

    Coen is a very nice guy but it’s been 10 years and he hasn’t figured out how to put a winning team on the field. In my mind, his biggest failing is his extreme loyalty to his assistant coaches. Lehigh’s defense has been atrocious for the last three years and yet every year Bott’s somehow keeps his job. Albert Einstein once said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

    #27808
    RichH
    RichH
    Participant

    Some good points,some hyperbole and a big dose of over reaction.
    Yesterday was not on Shaf . An OL collapse. MU had simple D scheme max pressure. Thet didn’t care what we ran. OL not at game speed. Simply put they panicked, missing assignments then devoving into a confused mess. Marino got them sorted out.at half. An effective line and O in the 2nd.
    Mayes will be a great QB and likely set all kinds of records. His arm would have made no difference yesterday. Like Shaf he would have had no time.
    Ceech was a great OC and thestaff turnover on his move hurt the entire program Folmar started slow but showed last year he us a very good OC.
    Time for a change?
    2 years overdue IMO. The target is not Coen. Botts has shown zero since coming back. Lots of reasons. #1 likely being very poor talent evaluation and recruiting by his predecessors. He has markedly improved recruiting . He has hired a number of very good assts. The basics are there. My issue is Botts still does not seem comfortable calling a3-3-5 scheme. We did “hold” a veteran O to 23 but D spent 2/3s of the game on the field. Partly our 1st half O implosion but also Ds inability to close MU out on way too many drives. Botts seem to play a read and react scheme. 3-3-5 not structured for that.
    All speculation on my part from what I saw yesterday. One game not remotely enough to trashcan this season.

    #27809

    TMH
    Participant

    LU90,
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are several ways to improve one’s record. So let’s examine those 4 wins.

    They beat William Jewel (I don’t have any idea who they are either), Missouri Baptist (ditto), Davidson who was 1-11 (their only win was against College of Faith-Charlotte) and Butler (4-7).

    But here is the bigger point. I fully concede that DC has a wonderful offensive mind. So does Drew Folmar. Defense is what has killed us. Valpo gave up at least 34 points in every game last year. They gave up 50+ in 3 of them, 40 + in another 2. They gave up 50 in the first game this year. Our offense will not improve significantly under DC and neither will our defense (apparently).
    Interesting stat, in the last 24 quarters, Lehigh has only punted 10 times. 3 of them were in the first half of the first game of this season (thinking rust maybe ?)

    Now if you are telling me that you would like to replace Coen with a defensive genius and retain Folmar to run the offense, my ears are open.

    #27811

    lu90
    Participant

    [quote quote=27809]LU90,

    Now if you are telling me that you would like to replace Coen with a defensive genius and retain Folmar to run the offense, my ears are open.

    [/quote]

    I would have no problem with that scenario. Folmar has done a good job as far as I am concerned. I would have no problem if he was retained in his current role. I will admit, a few games into last season I had my doubts, but he has progressed nicely in his role since then. I will concede that yesterday may have been 75% rust, but unfortunately the other 25% was Lehigh being outcoached.

    Defense is our current problem, but was not our problem in the first half of the Coen Era. If you remember, offense was our problem pre-Ceech. Hence the reason he was brought in.

    One of my main issues with Coen is his apparent inability to staff this team on his own. The old rule of business….surround yourself with intelligent people who are very good at their jobs and you look like a genius.

    Another issue is the apparent lack of motivation and game preparedness early in the season. It may just be me, but there have been a lot of seasons that Lehigh football started like what we saw yesterday.

    #27812

    Lehigh74
    Participant

    If Lehigh ever decided to replace Coen the first guy I would talk to is Kevin Higgins not Dave Cecchini. Higgins may have been the best coach we ever had and he also had a nack for picking good assistant coaches.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by  Lehigh74.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 1 month ago by  Lehigh74.
    #27815

    lu90
    Participant

    [quote quote=27803]agree with TMH about chick. Lum made chick look good,.real good.

    [/quote]

    Chicken or the egg? Did Lum benefit more from Cecchini’s presense or vice versa. Lum had a GREAT year and a half run and was very talented, but Colvin and Bialkowski were behind center the other 2 1/2 years. We were 10-1 the year after Lum left.

    #27816
    RichH
    RichH
    Participant

    Ceech an excellent IC but remember he was not perfect. He would at times overthink his own schemes with stretches of WTF play calls during games.
    Think we may be overthinking the shit out of one game.
    Andy is a pretty damn good coach with a weak spot for loyalty to assts. Hence we still have Botts and perhaps Roberts. If change must be made it is there. A young aggressive DC to actually utilize this 3-3-5.Botts ran a very good 4-3 at Lehigh. Understand when he came on we didn’t have the players for a 4-3. We have the players now for either. Pick one and run it. This passive 3-3-5 may slow down enemy scoring but it wont get the ball back for the O.

    #27817

    Miller
    Participant

    ok……..for the Chick lovers out there, If he were still the OC at Lehigh, Mayes would be the QB, still doesn’t help the D. A young DC would be great. We have young coaches waiting for the right direction. We will rebound after this game, but games like Monmouth show our weaknesses.

    #27818
    RichH
    RichH
    Participant

    On point M. QB is not our problem. Expect OL will not repeat yesterday. We face 3 better squads over the next month. IMO we can split these games andvgo into PL 2-3.

    #27819
    Go Lehigh TU Owl
    Go Lehigh TU Owl
    Participant

    Coen and the staff have a tremendous opportunity this weekend to show their stuff. Talley is widely regarded as one of, if not the best, active coach in FCS. He’s only lost two games against PL team in 20+ years, Fordham 2013 and Lehigh 2006. Andy will have the Wildcats well prepared for their home opener. You know he doesn’t want to head into retirement losing to a dreaded PL team.

    Personnel wise this should be a competitive game. ‘Nova has the much better defense but their offense is rather pedestrian. I don’t think their talent level is THAT much better than Monmouth’s. Coaching and a stud DE makes Villanova really tough to beat.

    This is a big spot for coaching staff and the players. The win down there in 2006 came in a similar spot.

    #27823
    LUHawker
    LUHawker
    Participant

    This thread took on far too much discussion about Chick. The issue is not to decide who to bring in, but renewed consideration that we need a new direction.

    Further to Shaf. The young man is by all accounts a great individual and no, game one isn’t on him. However, the issue is that because we can’t stretch the field, it’s a lot easier to spy him and to stack the box. As such, that lack of a deep ball game limits us. For certain, he brings other qualities to the table – namely running, but I prefer that our QBs can throw and we leave more of the running to our excellent stable of RBs.

    #27824
    ngineer
    ngineer
    Participant

    I waited a full day before peeking in here, and I was not disappointed with the histrionics. One game does not a season make, and this loss, and the way we lost, could well be a nice splash of cold water in the face for some guys too busy reading their press clippings about our “vaunted O”. We did see that O in the second half–21 points and over 200 yards. But if we have a problem with winning this year it will be due to the D. Considering the amount of time on the field, I thought they battled well, but I sense we are in the wrong scheme. We just cannot consistently stop the run..especially cannot get off the field on third down. I have never been a fan of the 3-4 or 3-5. We have been gashed on the outside for several years now. Stopping the run and pressuring the QB is where it’s at. I think our secondary is improved, and with a good pass rush, they will get their opportunities for picks. It is well thought that the best mark of any team is the improvement it makes from the first to second week. With a quality opponent, we will know for sure how good or bad we are by 10 p.m. this coming Saturday.

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