March 4, 2009 at 8:57 pm #135
Lots of ado on all the Boards about Fordham and GU concerning athletic aid. Will PL go that route? If not will FU pull out and go Indie? What will GU do?March 4, 2009 at 11:16 pm #137
I don’t follow a lot of the other boards. Can you provide a summary of what is being discussed?
I, for one, won’t be surprised when Colgate announces that they will go scholarship for football. I think they will be the first to go, but they might look for other PL support first.
It’s only a matter of time before Colgate alumni get fed up with losing to the likes of an Albany ,Monmouth, and Stony Brook. Many, many influential people would rather go scholarship and try and take on a Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern, and Stanford (out of conference, of course) than lose to the NEC type schools…
We’ve seen the studies; we know it won’t cost much more to implement scholarships in football – it’s just a case of everyone getting on board.
Now, will we follow suit? I’m not sure. In my opinion, we’re one of the "cheaper" schools (because we spend so little) on athletics that it’s borderline ridiculous…March 5, 2009 at 1:17 am #138
If the PL really wants to compete on a national level, they must go scholarship. The blowouts by Villanova to both us and Colgate paint that quite clearly. The schools need to make up their minds. SOGOTP!March 5, 2009 at 3:40 pm #144
FU told PL that schollies must be in place by June or it would leave. Word is that schollies were the quid pro quo for the AI. PL then put schollies back for discussion perhaps due to the economy, FU balked and issued the ultimatum. Should be interesting.March 5, 2009 at 5:51 pm #146
I sure hope the Patriot League joins the vast majority of other FCS leagues in utilizing non need-based scholarships. Maybe then, we can discuss the mechanics of football rather than the politics of this great game.
Nah . . .
there’s always the matter of academic qualification to attend, regardless who’s paying!March 5, 2009 at 10:31 pm #149
Well, I hope your "skirt" joins our "skirt" to vote for the scholarships then.March 6, 2009 at 8:02 pm #150
A very complicated and unpredictable issue.
A very old rumor is that Colgate is with Fordham on this. With Chopp moving to Swarthmore is this still true or will the new/interim folks in Hamilton be afraid to pull this, or any, trigger? If still ensconced on the throne and "in charge" when the time comes, it would not be a surprise if Chopp "passed," not wanting to stick her successors with a hot potato.
Another old rumor is that Holy Cross has always been against football scholarships. No one seems to have any real information here, so…
A new rumor is that Georgetown has also laid down the gauntlet (LFN’s term) by stating that if football scholarships are approved, they will deflate their ball and move on. Personally, I’m having more than a little trouble buying into this one.
Bucknell currently offers scholarships only in men’s and women’s basketball. On the surface, that would not bode well for a "yes" vote on football scholarships.
Lafayette is one of the smallest schools in the country playing D-1 athletics. Football is a ridiculously large percentage of what goes on over there. In addition, (relatively new) President Weiss spent a lot of his available capital on basketball scholarships and the stadium renovations. How will some of his other constituents feel about him bending over for athletics yet again?
There are as yet undefined Title IX implications all over this. One would think that the folks at Fordham have worked this out to their satisfaction. It does not however, play out the same at each institution. This is a huge concern in my mind.
How do the Patriot League decision makers (translation: the presidents) feel about being given an ultimatum by an associate member. In particular, how do they feel about being given an ultimatum by Fordham, who has done this before with basketball?
Where do American, Army and Navy fit into all of this? They are not directly affected and theoretically shouldn’t care, but they are full members and will undoubtedly have some kind of a voice. Perhaps expanding athletics to this degree somehow helps or hinders some of their objectives and agendas.
We are in a recession. Belt tightening is going on everywhere. To say that this will cost nothing because we already have equivalencies is probably not completely true.
Lehigh stands exactly where on this? You tell me.March 6, 2009 at 9:49 pm #151
Chopp will vote for scholarships I feel. Beyond that who knows what will happen. If we miss this window it’s all over.March 6, 2009 at 10:37 pm #152
Well, for me, if the Patriot League does not move to scholarships, given this heightened awareness of interest, then I say, so be it. The Patriot League should then look for another football playground. Too many bullies at the Division I level for anyone with less muscle.March 6, 2009 at 11:01 pm #153
"Neighbor" wrote: Well, for me, if the Patriot League does not move to scholarships, given this heightened awareness of interest, then I say, so be it. The Patriot League should then look for another football playground. Too many bullies at the Division I level for anyone with less muscle.
To the best of my knowledge and recollection, one cannot drop to, let’s say, D-3 for football to play against Amherst and Williams, while still wrestling D-1 against Iowa and Penn State.March 6, 2009 at 11:25 pm #154
You are absolutely correct. The only exceptions to the "same division in all sports" rule have already been grandfathered in. Example: Johns Hopkins D-1 lax, D-3 everything else…
You’ll also remember that it was this rule that led to the bizarre football conferences of "non-scholarship" D-1 schools, like St. John’s, Marist, Wagner, etc. They were all perfectly content to play D-3 football. Now, many of them no longer even play….March 7, 2009 at 3:45 am #155
"carney2" wrote: [quote="Neighbor"]Well, for me, if the Patriot League does not move to scholarships, given this heightened awareness of interest, then I say, so be it. The Patriot League should then look for another football playground. Too many bullies at the Division I level for anyone with less muscle.
To the best of my knowledge and recollection, one cannot drop to, let’s say, D-3 for football to play against Amherst and Williams, while still wrestling D-1 against Iowa and Penn State.[/quote]
Not necessarily so. Programs that are already "D-I" can be grandfathered like Johns Hopkins in lacrosse, but D-III in everything else.
PL definitely has to decide what they want to be. Become ‘another ‘ Ivy League and forget about competing for a national championship and instead have our champion play the IL champ first weekend in December, or bite the bullet and step up to the plate. Peter Likins’ vision was for Lehigh to become the "Stanford of the East". 20 years later Lehigh’s academic profile has risen significantly on a national level. Not ‘stanfordesque’ yet, but getting there. Question, now, is what do we do athletically?March 7, 2009 at 3:22 pm #156
I’d like to think Lehigh COULD remain Division I in selected sports and not in others. If not, Lehigh could certainly become an Independent in football, eschew any interest in being eligible for national playoffs, look to victories over the Ivy League as its goal, and schedule down to competition that is capable of providing a winning record every year.March 7, 2009 at 3:57 pm #157
While I can understand the frustration with the lack of definitive movement by LU or the PL, I am not ready to go back to playing Gettysburg. Thats where I started. We have seen with Small, Higgins and Lembo that as a school we can compete on the national level and compete well. Now with the changing landscape LU and The PL must either adapt or fade into insignicance. I do believe it will be the former.March 7, 2009 at 4:56 pm #158
RichH, I agree. Scholarships ARE coming to the Patriot League football landscape. Like you, playing Rochester Institute of Technology, Franklin & Marshall, Baldwin-Wallace, C.W. Post and Millersville, does not motivate me to want to attend. Besides, Goodman Stadium is much too large for that kind of contest.
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